Lindsay Clancy Trail- Day 15

brooke mcleod
2 days ago
6 min read

Witness #5 - Susan Clancy- Called by the defence

Lindsay's mother in law

Describes her relationship with Lindsay as good and the relationship with the children as beautiful. got to visit the family 2x a month on average
worked as a labour and delivery nurse for 38 years
Says' she was nurturing, loving and a wonderful mother
noticed in fall of 2022 things were taking a turn in Lindsay's personality
Lindsay told her about insomnia, loss of appetite, anxiety
says Lindsay was begging for help
Prosecution asked if she knew that Lindsay said they weren't close and that the in-laws didn't take the kids, Susan says no
Prosecution asks about some of the medication Lindsay was taking, Susan was aware and Lindsay would let her know that she was trying to get better.
at one point district attorney Shanan Buckingham asks Susan if she's an active member of the catholic church, she confirms she is and the DA responds "so you're aware murder is considered a mortal sin" ( Judge calls sidebar Immediately) The comment is stricken from the record and jury can't consider it.
Prosecution implies through questioning that the reason Lindsay was turned away from the Women's and infant day program (partial hospitalization program) was because the issue was her medications and had nothing to do with postpartum
Defence redirects to ask if sSusan is aware that Women's and infants tried to call nurse jollotta and she never returned their call

Court took sometime outside the presence of the jury to figure out some witnesses and evidence moving forward.

Prosecution wants to block a witness based on the fact that it is "cumulative" and most has been introduced by them already. legally defence is allowed to have their own experts. also the prosecution had sooo many repetitive witnesses. Witness is ALLOWED to testify.
3/6 presentation slides are allowed into evidence.

Witness #6- Dr. Donald Condie- Called by defence

child, adolescent, and adult clinical & forensic psychiatrist.

Focused on Psychotic Disorders and Mood disorders
While working at the Mass. Mental Health Centre (an impatient facility) he worked with more then 100 people with serious psychotic disorders and also has experience in postpartum depression and psychosis
went over Lindsay's medical history
Mentioned that side effects of meds can happen fairly quick but most Anti-depressants take up to 4-6 weeks to make a actual difference
He described Dr. Tufts notes as sparse, a lot of check boxes but not many sentences
Lindsay was very afraid of her kids getting sick and if one would have a cough at night it would interrupt her sleep
Brought attention to the fact that none of the providers looked into medical reasons, such as hormone or thyroid issues and went straight to medication.
Says her symptoms were consistent with Bi polar and Postpartum psychosis
Prosecution highlights that he never personally treated or evaluated her.

Witness #7- Dr. Laposata- Called by the defence

Anatomic and Forensic Pathologist

Testifies that the bruises on the kids that the prosecution pointed out were consistent with active running and jumping kids. and Callen's bruises on his head came from medical equipment used to monitor brain waves
testified that Lindsay's sharp force wounds are consistent with someone attempting suicide by cutting with a knife.
Confirms that her spinal injuries are consistent with diving head first on to the ground.
Talks about after the fall Lindsay lays on the hard frozen ground, her clothing was wet, she's wearing indoor clothing, it's dark so no sun and temperature is the low 30's Fahrenheit which is around -1 to 1 degree Celsius
In addition, her thoracic chest spine is damaged which totally disrupted the thermal regulation of her lower half of her body
Had a surgery to stabilize the spine and preserve any function that was still available
Being in spinal shock and hypothermia caused her heart to stop and she coded. she also required a massive blood transfusion due to loosing a lot of blood around the muscles holding up the spine due to the amount of damage

On cross

Prosecution comes out strong by asking about Dr. Laposata about a place she was chief medical examiner at 20 years ago having 10 violations for unsafe conditions.
Dr. Laposata responds describing some of the violations as a light bulb out and a computer int he hallway.
Prosecution challenges the direct fall on her head by asking if there we any skull fractures or cuts on her head. no brain swelling or damage.
Things start getting tense as prosecutors begin asking how she can be sure there would be bruising under the hair if it's not in the medical records. Dr. Laposata says due to the fall she's sure it would have bruised but wasn't noticed due to the severity of other injuries.
Brings up an old case she testified at that said strangling for 10-20 secs for unconsciousness, and in her report for the Clancy case she said it's 5-10 seconds
Dr. Laposata explained that in the other case it was manual strangulation vs. the ligature strangulation in the Clancy case.

This issue goes back and forth between defence and prosecutors. Prosecutors say Lindsay had to strangle each child for 2-3 minutes but defence points out the ligature remained in place and Dr. Laposata says that as long as the ligature remained in place then it would continue to strangle the Clancy children. prosecution point to there being no testimony or evidence that the bands were knotted or tied there and dr. Laposata states that even just being wrapped around the neck a couple times would keep them in place enough.

Funny side note: The witness testified by zoom and right after the questions stopped, Judge Sullivan called for a side bar (he does these 3-5 times a day haha) and then told the jury to take a break while they remove the equipment brought in for the witness to testify and then dismisses the court and the last you here is "Goodbye" from the witness still on screen

Witness #8- Dr. Paul Zeizel- called by defence

Clinical and Forensic Psychologist

Discusses different tests administered in different cases. Mentions one called MMPI and that it has a lie/ validity scale to reveal if someone is faking a result that favours them.
The government psychologist performed the MMPI and after reviewing. Dr Zeizel finds that Lindsay was not lying, exaggerating or faking a disease or defect.
Worked over sea for the military in Afghanistan, assessing if solider's were stable enough to continue or fit for duty
he evaluated Lindsay in the hospital after she had been there for 11 days and attorney reddington had to get a court order and call the chief in council at the hospital to get him in to see her.
she wasn't sure where she was, not entirely sure on the time but knew who she was. she also noted she remembered the incident but it was foggy and very fuzzy at that time.
she asked about Patrick and how he was as she hadn't heard from him since that night.
she made contact with Patrick using Dr. Zeizel's cellphone but on speaker phone. she told Patrick she loved him and that she heard a male voice saying "she didn't have any choice, she had to kill the kids and kill herself"
Has met with Lindsay over 45 times. he took a personal and medical history and reviewed all records
he goes over all the same things others have said from Sept 2022 - Jan 2023 about symptoms, seeing providers, medications, hospital programs etc.
She believed others could hear her thoughts, they were so loud. she thought the learning sprouts staff could hear her thoughts and she would loose custody of her kids
People with psychosis can have symptoms intermittently, they can have good days and bad days, they can drive, make phone calls and act very normal. For Lindsay it was auditory.

Court ended for the day the Witness will be back on the stand tomorrow

Thoughts on Day 15: I think it says a lot about Lindsay as a person that her mother-in-law is testifying for her defence. The one question Prosecutor Buckingham asked regarding murder being a mortal sin, seemed completely uncalled for and wrong. The prosecutors seemed to have a theme today of just frankly bitchy behaviour and grasping at straws for reasons to object to things. They have definatly tried to imply that bad mental health must be CONSTANT, which anyone with mental health knows is not true. Unfortunately for the defence a couple of the witnesses today really seemed to talk and talk which got boring at times and may have had some jurors daydreaming.

Lindsay's mother in law

Describes her relationship with Lindsay as good and the relationship with the children as beautiful. got to visit the family 2x a month on average

worked as a labour and delivery nurse for 38 years

Says' she was nurturing, loving and a wonderful mother

noticed in fall of 2022 things were taking a turn in Lindsay's personality

Lindsay told her about insomnia, loss of appetite, anxiety

says Lindsay was begging for help

Prosecution asked if she knew that Lindsay said they weren't close and that the in-laws didn't take the kids, Susan says no

Prosecution asks about some of the medication Lindsay was taking, Susan was aware and Lindsay would let her know that she was trying to get better.

Prosecution implies through questioning that the reason Lindsay was turned away from the Women's and infant day program (partial hospitalization program) was because the issue was her medications and had nothing to do with postpartum

Defence redirects to ask if sSusan is aware that Women's and infants tried to call nurse jollotta and she never returned their call

Court took sometime outside the presence of the jury to figure out some witnesses and evidence moving forward.

Prosecution wants to block a witness based on the fact that it is "cumulative" and most has been introduced by them already. legally defence is allowed to have their own experts. also the prosecution had sooo many repetitive witnesses. Witness is ALLOWED to testify.

3/6 presentation slides are allowed into evidence.

child, adolescent, and adult clinical & forensic psychiatrist.

Focused on Psychotic Disorders and Mood disorders

While working at the Mass. Mental Health Centre (an impatient facility) he worked with more then 100 people with serious psychotic disorders and also has experience in postpartum depression and psychosis

went over Lindsay's medical history

Mentioned that side effects of meds can happen fairly quick but most Anti-depressants take up to 4-6 weeks to make a actual difference

He described Dr. Tufts notes as sparse, a lot of check boxes but not many sentences

Lindsay was very afraid of her kids getting sick and if one would have a cough at night it would interrupt her sleep

Brought attention to the fact that none of the providers looked into medical reasons, such as hormone or thyroid issues and went straight to medication.

Says her symptoms were consistent with Bi polar and Postpartum psychosis

Prosecution highlights that he never personally treated or evaluated her.

Anatomic and Forensic Pathologist

Testifies that the bruises on the kids that the prosecution pointed out were consistent with active running and jumping kids. and Callen's bruises on his head came from medical equipment used to monitor brain waves

testified that Lindsay's sharp force wounds are consistent with someone attempting suicide by cutting with a knife.

Confirms that her spinal injuries are consistent with diving head first on to the ground.

Talks about after the fall Lindsay lays on the hard frozen ground, her clothing was wet, she's wearing indoor clothing, it's dark so no sun and temperature is the low 30's Fahrenheit which is around -1 to 1 degree Celsius

In addition, her thoracic chest spine is damaged which totally disrupted the thermal regulation of her lower half of her body

Had a surgery to stabilize the spine and preserve any function that was still available

Being in spinal shock and hypothermia caused her heart to stop and she coded. she also required a massive blood transfusion due to loosing a lot of blood around the muscles holding up the spine due to the amount of damage

On cross

Prosecution comes out strong by asking about Dr. Laposata about a place she was chief medical examiner at 20 years ago having 10 violations for unsafe conditions.

Dr. Laposata responds describing some of the violations as a light bulb out and a computer int he hallway.

Prosecution challenges the direct fall on her head by asking if there we any skull fractures or cuts on her head. no brain swelling or damage.

Things start getting tense as prosecutors begin asking how she can be sure there would be bruising under the hair if it's not in the medical records. Dr. Laposata says due to the fall she's sure it would have bruised but wasn't noticed due to the severity of other injuries.

Brings up an old case she testified at that said strangling for 10-20 secs for unconsciousness, and in her report for the Clancy case she said it's 5-10 seconds

Dr. Laposata explained that in the other case it was manual strangulation vs. the ligature strangulation in the Clancy case.

Clinical and Forensic Psychologist

Discusses different tests administered in different cases. Mentions one called MMPI and that it has a lie/ validity scale to reveal if someone is faking a result that favours them.

The government psychologist performed the MMPI and after reviewing. Dr Zeizel finds that Lindsay was not lying, exaggerating or faking a disease or defect.

Worked over sea for the military in Afghanistan, assessing if solider's were stable enough to continue or fit for duty

he evaluated Lindsay in the hospital after she had been there for 11 days and attorney reddington had to get a court order and call the chief in council at the hospital to get him in to see her.

she wasn't sure where she was, not entirely sure on the time but knew who she was. she also noted she remembered the incident but it was foggy and very fuzzy at that time.

she asked about Patrick and how he was as she hadn't heard from him since that night.

she made contact with Patrick using Dr. Zeizel's cellphone but on speaker phone. she told Patrick she loved him and that she heard a male voice saying "she didn't have any choice, she had to kill the kids and kill herself"

Has met with Lindsay over 45 times. he took a personal and medical history and reviewed all records

he goes over all the same things others have said from Sept 2022 - Jan 2023 about symptoms, seeing providers, medications, hospital programs etc.

She believed others could hear her thoughts, they were so loud. she thought the learning sprouts staff could hear her thoughts and she would loose custody of her kids

People with psychosis can have symptoms intermittently, they can have good days and bad days, they can drive, make phone calls and act very normal. For Lindsay it was auditory.

Court ended for the day the Witness will be back on the stand tomorrow

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